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Salt or no salt?
Posted by: Wolffmagik ()
Date: February 18, 2010 03:38PM

I am in the setting up my first African Cichlid tank ( 55 gallons ) and was wondering if I should put salt in the water. I had read that you should add 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons but also read that it was not required. My ph is 8.2 and my tap water is typically hard, if that makes a difference. Thanks in advance.

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: Barb Okla ()
Date: February 18, 2010 04:59PM

Salt is not required but recommened really. Some ppl use it and some dont'.. I do.

When U salt your tank for the first time, U need to do 1/2 dose the first day, then add in the rest the next day..
(DELUTED in tank water and poured along the front of the tank slowly)

The standard dose is 1 tabl per 5gal of water. But I do hafe dose in my tanks. that is 1 tabspoon per 10 gal of water.. But that is just me..

U do NOT EVER add in for the whole tank again.. U ONLY ADD IN SALT TO THE WATER U REPLACE BACK IN FROM WATER CHANGES!! Very important!!
Salt does not evaperate!!

It does help with gill function and helps with high nitrites in a cycling tank.. ( so I have read!)

I do not have ICH in my tanks. and their is enought stress to cause it for sure as some ppl think that is the cause! Africans are not friendly cichlids!!

One deal is I do have a 8.4 tap but after salt/dechlor it goes to 8.2-8.0.. not sure maybe if it is the way I treat my water before a water change. IN a 32 gal barrel with a pump running NO AIR.. and let it mix for a while before I use it..
My tanks go to 8.2 after a few days. so not sure if salt changes it or not. not enough to hurt the fish thou.. OR hasnt' mine..
U might want to do a 5gal test and see how it goes. Use dechlor and do only 1/2 table spoon salt and see in 30 min if it changes the Ph. IF U want to do ful dose, then do the rest of the salt for 5gal and see what happens.

Up to U but it has its good points and bad for some ppl..
Live plants dont' like it, scaless fish do not care for it either, I do low doses and I have not had a problem. New albino cory cats and some jungle vell in my 35 gal hex tank.. Ph 7.4.. RO/Tap.. So far, looks good.

It is more than a container with fish!!



My site: Great information for your fish keeping:

[aquatichobby.proboards.com]

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: blackghost ()
Date: February 18, 2010 07:56PM

If your water is hard enough there is no need to add salt, as all Rift Valley Cichlids are freshwater fish. Salt is not required for keeping freshwater fish. Some people add salt in case they get nitrites, but if your tank is filtered and maintained properly you wont get nitrites.

Salt does not affect pH, or hardness.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2010 07:58PM by blackghost.

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: CICH420LID ()
Date: February 24, 2010 01:59PM

my ph from the tap was around 7 and i never used salt when i was starting out .. my africans began to rub vigorously on rocks and gravel until i added salt. they stopped rubbing after that. africans are ok with brackish water so the salt should be ok. if you nitice signs of rubbing add the salt!! only when you chan ge the water tho. and fyi my lps has aquarium salt in every tank.
jbizz

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: blackghost ()
Date: February 25, 2010 07:49PM

Shops add salt for 2 reasons. The stock in a shop's tanks is constantly changing - sometimes a tank will be full of fish, at other times it wont have many fish. When a lot of fish are added to a tank (or a centralised system) the filtration might not be able to cope straight away, and there will be ammonia in the tanks. If the water is acid the ammonia wont be a problem, but they will turn into nitrites and these will be a problem. Salt reduces nitrite toxicity. This is the first reason they add salt.

The second reason is because salt cures a lot of diseases - fungal, bacterial and some protozoan diseases are cured by salt. Fish bring diseases into shops all the time, and salt is a cheap and effective treatment for a lot of them.

The reason CICH420LID's fish stopped scratching when he added the salt was either because he had nitrites, or because the fish had protozoan parasites irritating the skin.

Not all African cichlids will even tolerate salt. Rifts will, but if they are kept properly they do better without it, as do all freshwater fish. Think about it - they have evolved without salt, so how can it possibly be better to keep them with it?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2010 07:52PM by blackghost.

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: Barb Okla ()
Date: February 25, 2010 08:33PM

WEll Blackghost JUST SAID WHY U SHOULD USE SALT, ALTHOUGH, HE has stressed BEHIND all my posts on using it and I always state "UP TO U" ... NOT to.

Amazing..

And for not using it as the WILD ones dont' have it in the lakes.. WEll, these cichlids that ppl get are from breeders. MOST cichlids that ppl get are NOT wild. They are confined in a tank that has a tendency to get dirty, get to hot, then to cold. fish not keep right and stress then parasites to disease come along. Some of these problems that SALT can keep away..

But he did leave off one important fact with SALT in your tank...

Color.. some cichlids will color up BETTER and FASTER with Salt in your tank..

Salt is a great debate with ppl,, USE OR NOT TO USE.. I use it..

I REST my case with Salt in a tank or not.. HUGE/smiley grin!!

It is more than a container with fish!!



My site: Great information for your fish keeping:

[aquatichobby.proboards.com]

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: CICH420LID ()
Date: February 26, 2010 01:05PM

well whats the deal with the slime coat cuz i was told that the salt helps the slime coat is that true or not. and just so you know i tested my nitrites nitrares ammonia and all that good stuff and the nitrites had nothing to do with it. it was in a fully cycled tank, and anti protozoan parasite etc. chemical was used prior to the salt even came up. that was the last option.
= )

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: Barb Okla ()
Date: February 27, 2010 02:54PM

Salt helps them to shed their coat more often, especially when a parasite like ICH attaches to them.. The slime coat is a protective coating on the fish to help them ward off paraties and other problems they can have.. U noticed them rubbing, then they stoped ONCE U added in the salt.

Did U ever notice the slimely feeling of some deco or touch the inside glass of the tank and it feels slippery?.. that is their slime coat they have shedded. it will attach to objects in the tank.. YOUR tank glass gets cloudy and when U clean it off, U see it disolve like in the water. Same deal.. they have to replenish this coating and Salt helps them do so more often and in return, keeps away some parasites that CAN get on them..

ICH AND other paraistes U can not SEE, do NOT LIKE SALT or high temps of 82F-84F (27c-30c) or higher.. But a lot of fish can not deal with high temps and air is not sustained in high temp tanks.. U Must run an airpump/stone in the tank at all times in temps above 80F!!

Salt is not a cure all. IT has its benifits AND its down fall. AS in LIVE plants to PLECOS to other scaless fish DO NOT LIKE SALT!! So U hve to judge what is in your tank when using salt.. I find that 1/2 dose works out good for others in the tank..

IF ANYONE decides to do salt in their tanks, they do make a malawi salt that has other ingredients for just AFRICAN cichlids.. I used this and did full dose on that kind of salt and I had NO problems.. I now use the regular Aquarium salt and do 1/2 dose in all of my 12 tanks..

It is more than a container with fish!!



My site: Great information for your fish keeping:

[aquatichobby.proboards.com]

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: blackghost ()
Date: February 27, 2010 06:30PM

Barb Okla Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Salt helps them to shed their coat more often,
> especially when a parasite like ICH attaches to
> them.. The slime coat is a protective coating on
> the fish to help them ward off paraties and other
> problems they can have.. U noticed them rubbing,
> then they stoped ONCE U added in the salt.
>
> Did U ever notice the slimely feeling of some deco
> or touch the inside glass of the tank and it feels
> slippery?.. that is their slime coat they have
> shedded. it will attach to objects in the tank..
> YOUR tank glass gets cloudy and when U clean it
> off, U see it disolve like in the water. Same
> deal.. they have to replenish this coating and
> Salt helps them do so more often and in return,
> keeps away some parasites that CAN get on them..
------------------------------------------------------


This is absolutely ridiculous !!

Fish do not shed their slime. Whoever told you this Barb Okla - I think you should stop listening to them. The slime is on the fish for protection. It is only 'shed' if a disease or irritant causes an over-production.

The 'slime' on all non-living surfaces in a tank is a layer of bacteria. Anyone who understands bacterial filtration knows this.

Also if you read my posts again you will notice that I not given any reason why salt 'should be used' as you seem to think I have. I have tried to explain why shops use salt. I didnt say it should be used, and using it in a shop is an unusual case as shops stock their tanks differently to how we do.

Also Malawi Salts and Rift Lake Salts are not Sodium Chloride. There is a big difference. The Rift Lakes contain a mixture of various metal salts, which are what provide General Hardness, and do not contain Common Salt (which does not contribute to hardness).

If you have problems with your fish, use salt if you want to. But keep them properly, and free from parasites and diseases, and salt is not required. Simple as that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2010 06:33PM by blackghost.

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: CICH420LID ()
Date: March 03, 2010 01:22PM

mister black ghost are you a cichlid scientist.. because if you are i suggest you go to every cichlid website on the internet and make sure that you prove everyone wrong that has any kind of wrong info... most of the time when i go to my lps to ask a question it is a different answer than 9 out of 10 of the answers i previously got online.. . since i read that fish eat other fish in the wild does that mean that my cichlids cant eat feeders ? all i have to say is that its my opinion that since ive been taking care of cichlids they have never had a problem if i fed feeders to them no more than once every two weeks... your opinion is that it causes diseases and is bad cuz it has no nutritional value at all ... please disregard this if you have a phd in cichlid biology otherwise state your opinion and go on to the next post like everyone else winking smiley

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: CICH420LID ()
Date: March 03, 2010 01:24PM

i use aquarium salt in my tanks and i never had a problem and i am proud

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: blackghost ()
Date: March 04, 2010 03:07PM

CICH420LID Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mister black ghost are you a cichlid scientist..
> because if you are i suggest you go to every
> cichlid website on the internet and make sure that
> you prove everyone wrong that has any kind of
> wrong info... most of the time when i go to my lps
> to ask a question it is a different answer than 9
> out of 10 of the answers i previously got online..
> . since i read that fish eat other fish in the
> wild does that mean that my cichlids cant eat
> feeders ? all i have to say is that its my opinion
> that since ive been taking care of cichlids they
> have never had a problem if i fed feeders to them
> no more than once every two weeks... your opinion
> is that it causes diseases and is bad cuz it has
> no nutritional value at all ... please disregard
> this if you have a phd in cichlid biology
> otherwise state your opinion and go on to the next
> post like everyone else winking smiley


Are you on some kind of drugs?
You're accusing me of saying things I havent said.
If you dont want advice why are you posting questions?
Or are you just waiting for the answers you want to hear?

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: russo36 ()
Date: March 04, 2010 05:30PM

i personally use salt every single time i add water to my tank...like mention above there is no rule stating u have to do this but after reading some books and doing alot of research online i've found out that salt prevents and cures alot of diseases so y not! I just changed to 120g tank about two month ago and i set my new tank with API aquarium salt and nov aqua .. with a good percentage of water from my other tank where i had my cichlids. I also used about 45 pounds of crushed coral and other crushed rocks as well. I let my tank cycle for two weeks for precautions...my fish seem to be doing great they love their new place and my fry are enjoying the other tank now that they can swim all over with out the risk of getting eaten.. smiling smiley

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: Barb Okla ()
Date: March 05, 2010 12:47PM

EVERYONE is intitled to their OPINION.. Regarless if it is negitive or positive..

BUT I wil not tolerate the insults to others here. Keep it clean and to the POINT of the FIRST post..

ANY MORE BASHING WIL RESULT IN THE BOARD BEING LOCKED DOWN


The use of salt in your tank is a big debate in fish keeping. AS I STATED BEFORE! IT has it uses and some fish do GREAT and others do NOT.. U need to RESEARCH the pros and cons of YOUR fish and or cichlids, when using SALT in your tank..

1. IT is not a cure all. but has many benifits..

2. YES it helps with "external parasites, such as ICH.. Gill flukes and other EXTERNAL parasites can be treated in a high dose bath (IN a bucket Salt bath, NOT in the tank!) .. With out the use of other medications that if not done right or the wrong meds, That can do more damage in the long run..

3. YES it helps with a cycling tank with the regard to NITRITES..

4. YES it helps with mucus regeneration (slime coat production)

5. YES it helps the fish on Gill function. Electrolytes found in Aquarium salt are essential for the intake of oxygen and the release of carbon dioxide.

6. YES it helps with the color of your CICHLIDS depending on the SPECIES..
(MY therey here is the Gill function: MORE easily attained oxygen in, Good blood circulation make it easier for them to maintain their colors like nature intended.. Other factors I am sure help here too, like diet and keeping the tank/filter cleaned and maintained.)


7. STRESS?? not sure.. A cichlids tanks are a stress factor in itself.

IT can be removed throught WATER CHANGES with NO salt over a period of your tanks gal per water changes. EASY to do..

REMEBER: SALT does not EVAPORATE! So only add it ONCE to the tank gal. then only on WATER CHANGES their after..

THE disadvanages of using SALT:


1. MANY fish do not like it. All your scaless fish mostly.. Do your research on your species!!

2. LIVE plants do not like it. (Most cichlids eat plants so not a factor here, unless U hve plants and find out later they dont' do good with cichlids)

3. U get that hard calcium build up on your filter outtakes to other places in the tank rims.
O my gosh! I am going to really clean the filter! UGGG!! IF mantained right, U wont' have a big buildup. And it is mostly on just the cover of the filter.. YOUR bubbler, if at the back of the tank, wil pop out if not sealed good in the openings. THAT Is a head ache to deal with!! I dont' like to do that my self. BUT easily dealt with as NOW I moved my bubblers/airstones mostly now, to the middle of the tank in the rocks. Now it is only the Glass hoods that I can scrape off with a razor blade. easy now..


I am sure their are more DO NOT on using SALT, but time is passing and I have TANKS to do.. 4 today..

So here is some info on the use of salt in your tank. BUT this guy does discurage Salt usage. so know that now. He does however, brings up good points in using it and what it can do and not do as stated on the API label..AGAIN this is his OPINONS..

[www.skepticalaquarist.com]

It is more than a container with fish!!



My site: Great information for your fish keeping:

[aquatichobby.proboards.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2010 01:00PM by Barb Okla.

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Re: Salt or no salt?
Posted by: CICH420LID ()
Date: March 10, 2010 12:18AM

Bloodworms are a good food as nearly all fish love them. They are low in nutrition, but are an excellent food for getting fish to eat.
You could also try earthworms, prawns, or any of the sinking pellets.

Fish that wont eat at all often have an internal bacterial infection. A course of bactericide usually cures this.

Feeders should not be used, as there is always a risk of introducing diseases/internal parasites.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2010 10:30PM by blackghost.


umm yea actually you did obviously say that so if you dont even remember what you write on this site you must be high .... bud

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